Pics and details on Pellet fed tort/Cameo

[pagan queen]

There is some interest in how my tort, Cameo is getting on. I have had her from a hatchling, 3 months old. She is fed on mainly pellets through the winter and all weeds during the summer. She is kept in a viv all winter and during cold days in summer and during the night. I don't hibernate her. She doesn't have UV lighting, I prefer to supplement and feed pellets.
Some people believe that pellet fed torts and if they are grown too fast causes pyramided shells.

Cameo is 3 years 4 months and measures 17cm/5 and a half inches and weighs 952g. I don't bathe her daily, only weekly but she has a large bowl of water in her viv where she often sits for long periods. The viv temps are 33c at the warm end and 24c at the cool end. I have a stat with night vision thing (can't remember the correct term) that keeps the temps at 15 through the night. I don't spray the soil every day, maybe once a week, the humidity usually stays around 50% with the water bowl.
Anything you wish to ask, please feel free.

Here is the lady herself.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q5/ziggy_stardust_photos/815F4F22-C5EB-45A5-86FF-827CDC957D8F-2124-000001B113481837_zpsedaea9ab.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/ziggy_stardust_photos/media/815F4F22-C5EB-45A5-86FF-827CDC957D8F-2124-000001B113481837_zpsedaea9ab.jpg.html)

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q5/ziggy_stardust_photos/1783785A-B5AE-442B-99FC-EDB18D472164-2124-000001B10BBCFF7A_zpse873b20f.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/ziggy_stardust_photos/media/1783785A-B5AE-442B-99FC-EDB18D472164-2124-000001B10BBCFF7A_zpse873b20f.jpg.html)

[Merlin M]

She is beautiful and has a wonderful shell!

[becciwales]

Aww, she's beautiful :-) x

[Gordon]

Very nice i also use vivs i even have my breeding group of golden greeks in a very large one and they do just fine i think they proved that this year with the amount of babies they produced :grin::grin::grin:

[Suze65]

Sorry but I can't help noticing that she does have some pyramiding and she is quite a size for a 3 year old. If we are going to discuss the pros and cons of a diet consisting mainly of pellet food, and you mentioned not watering the substrate more than once a week, then I feel I have to point this out.
Having said that , yes she is lovely , but not growing with a smooth shell.

I am only saying this as part of a friendly debate, please don't be cross with me :oops:

[Pussygalore]

I'm so glad someone else said something as I daren't :oops: but if you look at the pictures taken at the begin of the year and they are in the other thread
then you can see the difference, sadly the weight isn't mentioned in that photo. However she's still a lovely tort and it goes to show that viv's can be used with success, there are very few that are grown without any pyramidding or fast growth and haven't been wild caught its very hard to achieve and this tort is much better than most.
http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=67260 Hopefully this link works

[becciwales]

In fairness, (and i know i am new to this tort keeping malarkey) I'm yet to see a perfectly smooth few year old tort. Please if i am wrong, show me the pics and I will apologise to whoever necessary. I mean captive bred and raised.

[Pussygalore]

This was my young sully who was just over two in this picture, I kept her pretty much the same as I did my Ibera, with a daily bath, a small amount of Mazuri and Pre Alpine daily along with weeds/plants again daily, she was in a 6x4 table with two combined lamps and extra lighting for any dark areas. Bolder also had the run of a 8x6 greenhouse (floor) planted and soiled and an outside grassed enclosure weather permitting, her table temps were pretty much the same as the Ibera, basking areas of 32-34 and the rest 20c the only difference was that she also had night temps of 20c rather than a drop. I know its not the traditional way of sully care and that she was probably to heavy being around 1600 gr but I was quite pleased with her appearance and had never had any experience with sully's so played it by what she seemed to be happy with.
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc264/squirrelann/P1020811.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/squirrelann/media/P1020811.jpg.html)

[Pussygalore]

I might be wrong but I think there's someone called Hermione or similar who has pretty perfect torts and there are a few on RFUK who don't come here who also can produce and grow without any problems. It does seem to be the keepers that have been keeping for many years though, I mustn't forget Chris/ Naturlis or Ej/Ed amoung those.

[Suze65]

Well I have, they belong to my sister in law, they are smooth as a babies bum, and mine of the same age are not far off that. It is hard to grow torts in captivity with a smooth shell, but it is possible.

All I can say is the way we do it, we keep them in tables, bath hatchlings daily,
When they get to a year old , bath less, maybe 3 times a week and so on. We keep substrate moist ( never let it dry out completely ) , and keep water available. We never feed with pellets,only weeds, flowers and salad leaves.
We do hibernate our torts, but not hatchlings. And they live out side all summer.

That's just our way of doing things and it seems to be working. Some do grow slightly faster than others , but none are growing very fast. You may ask what is very fast, I don't know, but ours are all growing at a slow to moderate spread.

I'm not saying which is the right or wrong way, but we seem to be achieving fairly good results.

[Merlin M]

Yeah Chris has some stunners, my Amber is very smooth, but I don't know how old she is... 3 or 4 by my reckoning... fed on a mix of weeds and pellets and lettuce too

http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii640/Merlin_Maxwell/IMG_0955_zps58fc02fa.jpg (http://s1263.photobucket.com/user/Merlin_Maxwell/media/IMG_0955_zps58fc02fa.jpg.html)

[becciwales]

I'm not on RFUK, this is for this forum. Very experienced keepers should get it right surely? I said I'm yet to see a perfect one not that there aren't any. Most torts I'VE SEEN have some degree of pyramiding. As I said, I will apologise to anyone I offend when I see a perfectly smooth shell.

[becciwales]

Sorry Merlin, that is pretty smooth.
Sorry Suze, any pics :-) I love seeing other peoples torts. I'm doing my best and I hope Darwin stays smooth

[Suze65]

Just to clarify, the ones in tables are the babies, they are inside more during the summer on bad days, the rest are out side all summer.

[Suze65]

Don't be sorry Becci, your right, you do see a lot of lumpy torts, sadly. I do have two lumpy ones, but they came to me like that.

[Pussygalore]

piccies please :smile:

[Suze65]

Will do , although if you have a look through the pics pages you'll see plenty of mine, I'll see if I can find them.

[becciwales]

I'm sooooooo paranoid I'm getting something wrong. I'd hate to think I've done something to harm Darwin.

[Pussygalore]

Merlin your horsfeild looks lovely have you had her from a hatchling? did you achieve the smooth growth and how much does she weigh, is she correct weight to size

[Merlin M]

She is underweight just now, some separation stress and worms this year I am afraid
No I only got her last April, she was lovely and smooth when I got her, unlike Misha who came lumpy but is smoothing out as he grows.

She was 6.5cm when I got her last April, 12cm now, and I did hibernate her last winter, but wont this winter due to weight.

[Suze65]

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj606/mediterraneansuze/6191c390911fec0da719dbf72d473c3d_zpsf9fd4fdb.jpg (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/mediterraneansuze/media/6191c390911fec0da719dbf72d473c3d_zpsf9fd4fdb.jpg.h tml)

http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj606/mediterraneansuze/08253f2b.jpg (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/mediterraneansuze/media/08253f2b.jpg.html)

[Merlin M]

They are stunners Suze!

Do I spot a split acute in the top pic?

[Suze65]

Yes she does have a line going through that scute ( born this way ) but it's not causing any problems

[Merlin M]

Yes she does have a line going through that scute ( born this way ) but it's not causing any problems

Its beautiful, makes her special!
I love those little imperfections that come naturally!

[becciwales]

Darwin looks like that. Phew :-) I worry about the top row looking raised a bit, but yours have the same darker mark around the middle scutes. Must just be markings and my paranoia!!

Lush pics :-)

[burnt toast]

It is possible to grow them smoothly. I have a lot of rehomers who are slight to very bumpy :( but the ones I have had from hatchlings have remained smooth as they have grown. If you look in my album @ Rambo in Herman album & Roxy in Marginated album you will see these ( they are not recent pictures to be fair Rambo was approx. 300 grams at the time, shes now 430ish & Roxy is a lot lot bigger now - I will see if I can find more recent pictures)Next to Roxy is Marge - I would like to point out I didn't grow Marge - she is a rehomer - her pyramiding is a lot less now :)

[burnt toast]

Sods law, photobucket is down for maintenance :(
I also have a 9 year old Herman male with the smoothest shell. He looks like hes been sandpapered. I have only had him a couple of years & rehomed him from a lady who had him from a hatchling & kept all four of her torts in a heavily planted run/greenhouse, fed only weeds & hibernated them each year in a huge box of soil in a shed with just a light bulb on thermostat to stop freezing. He turns his nose up at salad leaves!

[Alan1]

Prescott the vets in Morpeth are of the opinion that torts should be kept in vivs up to the age of 2 because it is easier to control the humidity which is vital to torts of that age. I have read thousands of opinions on pyramiding and the one that makes most sense to me is the one that says lack of humidity when hatchlings dries out the soft springy scutes which can then grow 'wrongly' due to their lack of suppleness, supposedly once they are dried out it can't be reversed. Of course who knows, that may be a load of crap because experts don't even have the answer to pyramiding yet, only theories. With my own two torts, I got Slovenian imports at age 2 and one had slight pyramiding and the other didn't and as they have grown over the years they have stayed in proportion which is why I believe that theory.

Robson & Prescott say..
"Tortoises

These animals are becoming more and more popular. With the restriction on imports of the common tortoises many of the more tropical species are being offered for sale.

Their requirements for feeding, temperature, lighting etc all differ so ensure you know exactly what is required before you buy. Remember tortoise tables do fine in a warm room but might struggle to maintain a suitable temperature in an unheated room in the middle of winter!

In our opinion many tortoises are offered for sale when far too young – with these little creatures the margin for error is very small. We strongly advocate the use of a vivarium and accurate control of the temperature by use of a thermostat. Remember many tropical species such as Sulcatas and Leopards do not hibernate and can grow very large."

It's not only in captivity that pyramiding occurs, Manuel Wegehaupt has his theories here http://www.testudo-farm.de/html/formation_of_humps.html which are lack of drinking water and or humidity

[becciwales]

That's very interesting.
:-)

[Catwoman63]

This is my Lilly, she is around 5 years old and I've had her from 6 months old, she is 16cm x

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii566/Catwoman63/image_zps42cb7eea.jpg (http://s1260.photobucket.com/user/Catwoman63/media/image_zps42cb7eea.jpg.html)

[Pussygalore]

lovely looking horsfeild and she seems very happy in the sun :razz:

[Suze65]

She's really beautiful Bev, lovely shell.

I agree with you Alan about the hydration , that's why I keep the substrate moist. And bath them regularly, but I'm not sure about the need to keep hatchlings in a viv, mine are doing fine in a table, unless of course you do have a cold house over winter, then I can see the need for a viv.

I'm still undecided about rapid growth affecting shell growth, I know most experts think it's mostly about hydration , which I agree with, but I can't help thinking when I see torts that are large for their age, they often do seem to have pyramiding. That's nothing more than what I see, but I could be wrong.

[Pussygalore]

being at home I was able to spray the substrate several times a day plus all the babies had a daily soak, even that amount of spraying was only just enough. One thing I did find that the soil under a peice of cork bark would stay moist for longer as the bark is non absorbant, I also had living plants, (fairly big ones) planted in corners etc these were watered everyday and were in compost/soil and the torts would often be found under the plants where the soil was always damp. They obviously had a need to seek out damp/humid areas the humidity in these places was far higher than the rest of the tables, even the young sully would often seek out these areas, she had a big spider plant in her 6x4 table and could get under the leaves, the babies had smaller plants but could get right under.

[emma_mcraf]

She's really beautiful Bev, lovely shell.

I agree with you Alan about the hydration , that's why I keep the substrate moist. And bath them regularly, but I'm not sure about the need to keep hatchlings in a viv, mine are doing fine in a table, unless of course you do have a cold house over winter, then I can see the need for a viv.

I'm still undecided about rapid growth affecting shell growth, I know most experts think it's mostly about hydration , which I agree with, but I can't help thinking when I see torts that are large for their age, they often do seem to have pyramiding. That's nothing more than what I see, but I could be wrong.

I've missed this thread until now!
I keep the substrate moist too Suze. Every other day I put a small watering can over the substrate while they're in the bath and I use a child's rake to rake it through to get to the lower levels of the soil. It's amazing how quickly it dries out under the lamps. I bath my hatchlings daily and then every other day after they're a year old. They all have a water dish they can fit into in their tables so they take themselves off to sit in there if they wish and they often use it for toileting on days they haven't had a bath. :smile:
I used to spray but it took a while for six tables, made my tendonitis play up and only really touched the top of the substrate. I do give the plants a spray occasionally and the torts like it too. :) I'm happy with the shell growth of mine. I haven't any new photos to upload of them but from the ones I posted in the summer, you can probably see they aren't pyramiding much at all.

I think that Cameo's shell growth has been consistent since the photos Wendy took at the start of the year. She doesn't look any worse to me, the bumpiness of the shell seems to be the same. She's just a big girl, weighing almost as much as my Tabitha who is 7 years old. You're going to have a big tort in Cameo Wendy if she keeps growing at the same rate! ;)

[Catwoman63]

Lovely pictures from everybody, lovely grown torts.

I think we can become too obsessed about perfectly smooth tortoises, I don't think it's a problem to have slight bumpiness, as long as the conditions are right, and they are happy and healthy, slight bumpiness is not a concern.

My Tyler is slightly bumpy yet he was and is kept in the exact same conditions I have kept Lilly, so by my observation some may be prone to bumpiness, I do however agree with hydration, and lack of D3 that contributes or could be a major cause of soft bones (as I recently found out I have D3 deficiency and if not treated then will end up with osteomalacia or osteoarthritis) same for tortoises I suspect lol :) x

[Merlin M]

Lovely pictures from everybody, lovely grown torts.

I think we can become too obsessed about perfectly smooth tortoises, I don't think it's a problem to have slight bumpiness, as long as the conditions are right, and they are happy and healthy, slight bumpiness is not a concern.

My Tyler is slightly bumpy yet he was and is kept in the exact same conditions I have kept Lilly, so by my observation some may be prone to bumpiness, I do however agree with hydration, and lack of D3 that contributes or could be a major cause of soft bones (as I recently found out I have D3 deficiency and if not treated then will end up with osteomalacia or osteoarthritis) same for tortoises I suspect lol :) x

I agree!

Hope you get you d3 sorted!

[Catwoman63]

Thanks merl, I meant to say osteoporosis as well, I'm taking really high D3 supplements (where's that sunshine lol) x

[Merlin M]

Go sit in with the tortoises!

[Catwoman63]

You'd think I had enough D3 with being exposed to all their uv bulbs wouldn't you lol x

[becciwales]

Lovely pictures from everybody, lovely grown torts.

I think we can become too obsessed about perfectly smooth tortoises, I don't think it's a problem to have slight bumpiness, as long as the conditions are right, and they are happy and healthy, slight bumpiness is not a concern.

My Tyler is slightly bumpy yet he was and is kept in the exact same conditions I have kept Lilly, so by my observation some may be prone to bumpiness, I do however agree with hydration, and lack of D3 that contributes or could be a major cause of soft bones (as I recently found out I have D3 deficiency and if not treated then will end up with osteomalacia or osteoarthritis) same for tortoises I suspect lol :) x

I agree. Everyone elses obsession is making me paranoid!! Ha ha x

[Catwoman63]

Yes don't get paranoid about it Becci, as long as you are giving Darwin what he needs then he will do fine :) x

[becciwales]

Ha ha, thank you. I'm doing my best for him :-) definitely a learning curve :-) xx

[Suze65]

Lovely pictures from everybody, lovely grown torts.

I think we can become too obsessed about perfectly smooth tortoises, I don't think it's a problem to have slight bumpiness, as long as the conditions are right, and they are happy and healthy, slight bumpiness is not a concern.

My Tyler is slightly bumpy yet he was and is kept in the exact same conditions I have kept Lilly, so by my observation some may be prone to bumpiness, I do however agree with hydration, and lack of D3 that contributes or could be a major cause of soft bones (as I recently found out I have D3 deficiency and if not treated then will end up with osteomalacia or osteoarthritis) same for tortoises I suspect lol :) x

Yes, I agree! we mustn't become too obsessed with bumpy shell! but I do think we ow it to our torts to try our best to get their shells to grow well, it's in our hands and they have no control over it. And yes I do agree some individuals are more prone to pyramiding than others.

[Shelled Lady]

This is my Lilly, she is around 5 years old and I've had her from 6 months old, she is 16cm x

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii566/Catwoman63/image_zps42cb7eea.jpg (http://s1260.photobucket.com/user/Catwoman63/media/image_zps42cb7eea.jpg.html)

I have to say that this is the only tortoise that looks smooth, so well done. However, as long as your tortoises are healthy that's the main thing. Not all my youngsters are perfect but certainly look better for being outside. One I have had for 40 years has a perfectly smooth shell but he grew up outside with no lamps.

In the past they never grew lumpy because they all lived outside during the summer and then hibernated when it grew cold. So it is a combination of low humidity and heat lamps that seem to be the main problem, plus of course eating too much and little exercise if they live in viv and tables for some time.;)

[becciwales]

Yes, I agree! we mustn't become too obsessed with bumpy shell! but I do think we ow it to our torts to try our best to get their shells to grow well, it's in our hands and they have no control over it. And yes I do agree some individuals are more prone to pyramiding than others.

I definitely think we should do our best for them, we owe it to any pet we have. x

[Suze65]

I do agree, Bevs tort is blummin amazing looking

[becciwales]

Yes, beautiful. They all are though. I love seeing others pics. It's hard to imagine Darwin big like that but he's growing :-)

[Catwoman63]

I have to say that this is the only tortoise that looks smooth, so well done. However, as long as your tortoises are healthy that's the main thing. Not all my youngsters are perfect but certainly look better for being outside. One I have had for 40 years has a perfectly smooth shell but he grew up outside with no lamps.

In the past they never grew lumpy because they all lived outside during the summer and then hibernated when it grew cold. So it is a combination of low humidity and heat lamps that seem to be the main problem, plus of course eating too much and little exercise if they live in viv and tables for some time.;)

Thank you very much, she is my first tortoise and very special to me.

Lilly hibernated for the first time last year, before this she was kept indoors on a table and outside all summer. I must say since little Tyler who is just over a year and half, his new growth since living outside in a tort shed and garden is a lot smoother, but I'm not concerned about his slight bumpiness x

[Catwoman63]

I do agree, Bevs tort is blummin amazing looking

Thank you suze, she is my first and favourite :) x

[pagan queen]

Just caught up with this, been busy.
With regard to spraying the soil. I only spray once a week because in a viv the soil stays wet longer and spraying too often caused too much humidity, med torts don't need as much humidity as other torts. The cool end stays damp for quite some time. I used to bathe Cameo every day until this summer but found she had been sitting in her water bowl so didn't want to stay in her bath. She even sits in the one she has in her outdoor enclosure. I don't feel her shell is any worse, and better than some a lot smaller than her I have seen on here that are kept on tables. As Emma said, there has been no change between the first pictures and the recent ones.

Cameo holds herself well clear of the floor when walking, is energetic and full of life. I have had no problems with feeding, as many do on here and she seems very happy and active. I am very happy with her progress and will continue with the husbandry that I have found works for us. I am not suggesting my way is the right way but it's not wrong either, it works and I have 2 healthy, happy torts and that is what matters. :grin:

[Merlin M]

I am not suggesting my way is the right way but it's not wrong either, it works and I have 2 healthy, happy torts and that is what matters. :grin:

I would say its the right way, but that there is more than one right way, and what is right for one may not be right for another!

You do, as all of us strive to, the best for your tortoises in the conditions available, and as they stay happy and healthy it is hard not to say you are doing a fab job!

[becciwales]

Just caught up with this, been busy.
With regard to spraying the soil. I only spray once a week because in a viv the soil stays wet longer and spraying too often caused too much humidity, med torts don't need as much humidity as other torts. The cool end stays damp for quite some time. I used to bathe Cameo every day until this summer but found she had been sitting in her water bowl so didn't want to stay in her bath. She even sits in the one she has in her outdoor enclosure. I don't feel her shell is any worse, and better than some a lot smaller than her I have seen on here that are kept on tables. As Emma said, there has been no change between the first pictures and the recent ones.

Cameo holds herself well clear of the floor when walking, is energetic and full of life. I have had no problems with feeding, as many do on here and she seems very happy and active. I am very happy with her progress and will continue with the husbandry that I have found works for us. I am not suggesting my way is the right way but it's not wrong either, it works and I have 2 healthy, happy torts and that is what matters. :grin:

Agreed. If it works it works. I hope mine looks as good as yours. :-) Some are too quick to judge others. I get paranoid I'm not doing it right, but I'm doing my best and ask if I don't know something.

I'm also quite piddled right now so maybe shouldn't say too much!!! :lol:

[Suze65]

I hope no one thinks I was in any way judging any one , because I wasn't, I was just trying it have a friendly debate. It's a shame if we can't do that. Sorry if I have given that impression :(

[Catwoman63]

I think it's good to have a debate, I think all the tortoises in the pictures on this thread look really great, and they are kept differently, so it shows that either way torts can grow happy and healthy x

[Suze65]

I agree, :-D

[Pussygalore]

giving an honest non biased opinion isn't judging and being honest is what the forums should be about. If we all said what we think the poster wants to hear it wouldn't be worth having a forum or being a member of one especially if you want advice and to learn.

[becciwales]

It is good to have a debate. My comment is not based on this post alone. And it's not good to say what people want to hear all the time especially when asking for advice. I'm grateful for the advice I get on here, but there are some too quick to judge without learning all the facts first. In my drunken state I probably voiced what I usually think and maybe shouldn't have. I'm sorry if offence was caused, I don't drink often and had 2 bottles last night. My head hurts today. Bit, as you said it's not good to only say what others want to hear and that what I did. :oops:

[pagan queen]

No offense taken here either. If I was offended I would have to be unsure about the way I keep my torts. I am proud of them both. Debate is good, seeing different ways of providing good care for our torts can only be good thing.

[becciwales]

:-) good. I agree x

[Ozric Jonathan]

I've got a dozen hermanns all of which were yearlings when I got them but in several batches so they are a variety of ages, sizes and weights.

They are all different in how much bump they have. One is almost totally smooth at 8 years and a couple of the 4 year olds are quite bumpy. Others in between.

I do much the same for them all in terms of diet and care etc. So something else is going on!

[Ozric Jonathan]

Cameo is lovely and appears very healthy. I would say she was 'quite bumpy'. Whatever that means.

[alley cat]

I've got a dozen hermanns all of which were yearlings when I got them but in several batches so they are a variety of ages, sizes and weights.

They are all different in how much bump they have. One is almost totally smooth at 8 years and a couple of the 4 year olds are quite bumpy. Others in between.

I do much the same for them all in terms of diet and care etc. So something else is going on!

This is a good point, even though I soak my hatchlings daily this does not mean that they actually drink, also each tortoise will choose to eat differing quantities of what is available. The soil in the tables is kept damp but even that varies from under a hide to say in a corner so all the the babies are regulating things for themselves to some degree and that is out of our control hence the variation between tortoises that are kept in the same table.
Also forgot to mention that I also believe that genetics may play a part in speed of growth etc :grin:

[becciwales]

It's like humans, we all grow to different heights, weights etc at different times. Not all 2 year olds for example will be the same height, some are more prone to weight gain than others, toddlers show this with some being really chubby and some really lanky. Genetics have a lot to answer for. And another post on the forum shows that we can do our best but sometimes the damage is already done before we have them.

[Suze65]

Also some torts will grow slightly bumpy in the wild. I have a WC Herman, he's very old, and he has a slightly bumpy shell. ( I'm assuming he came to the uk like this many years ago, cos I don't know )

[emma_mcraf]

I believe that genetics plays a part. If parents of a hatchling are both quite bumpy, I would have thought that hatchling was more likely to be bumpy too, despite the care given.
Perhaps breeders who have kept their hatchlings would be able to comment more on this. i.e. whether babies hatched from bumpy parents tend to be 'bumpier' compared to hatchlings from smoother-shelled parents.

[Alan1]

It could well be Emma, who knows, it could be that they are born smooth and develop it later like us and heart trouble etc if your parents had it. All there ever is is theories, nobody ever has any proof of what causes it. Some theories are more believable than others but it doesn't necessarily mean they are right. The world is flat theory was a good one at the time, believed by loads of people :D

[Hanako]

I'm not on RFUK, this is for this forum. Very experienced keepers should get it right surely? I said I'm yet to see a perfect one not that there aren't any. Most torts I'VE SEEN have some degree of pyramiding. As I said, I will apologise to anyone I offend when I see a perfectly smooth shell.

This one is perfectly smooth. And I am not a breeder. :-)
http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag66/Hanca1/Mobile%20Uploads/DSCF2734_zps918b83ff.jpg (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/Hanca1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSCF2734_zps918b83ff.jpg.html)

[becciwales]

He or she is indeed perfect. Possibly the smoothest I've seen. Gorgeous.

[Hanako]

Thank you. I posted it because it seemed to me that you are suggesting that it is impossible. :smile: This girl is 5-6 years old (I would have to check the papers to know exactly).

[becciwales]

I didn't say it was impossible, I said I hadn't seen one. Beginning to wish I hadn't commented tbh. I'm more careful with what I say now.

[alley cat]

Hanako..is this an example of a tortoise that has been pellet fed and raised in a vivarium?

[Hanako]

This one was raised on pellets. In vivarium only in the winter, in the summer she was outside. Not hibernated. But bathed daily.

[alley cat]

This one was raised on pellets. In vivarium only in the winter, in the summer she was outside. Not hibernated. But bathed daily.

Well it has a super smooth shell :D is it a UKCB?

[Hanako]

Well it has a super smooth shell :D is it a UKCB?

Not sure. I got her from a family friend who has been keeping tortoises for years but not breeding. I don't know where she got it from. To be honest I can't take the credit because I don't have her that long (less than a year) but the pellets, frequent baths and vivarium in the winter, outside in the summer is what I was told to do because it is apparently what this tortoise is used to.

[becciwales]

If it works it works.