pawsplus
15-05-2007, 08:04 PM
The wildlife rehab place where I took the snapper is really pretty good -- it started in someone's living room and is now on 15 acres in the country, w/ outdoor flight cages for raptor rehab, a very nice pond for aquatic turtles, etc. They are VERY good at caring for injured wildlife and release. But I have had some issues w/ them in the past over how they deal w/ non-releaseable animals (who are kept for educational purposes). I.e., box turtles. When I was there today there were 2 boxies in separate 20 gal. tanks (vivs) on 1/2" of dry pine nuggets. :shock: I didn't say anything at the time, b/c the girl helping me was just a volunteer, but afterwards I sent the center this:
Hi -- I brought in the snapper this a.m. :-) Thanks so much for helping him/her -- I'll check back for a progress report in a few days.
I do want to comment on the box turtles' accommodations because they really did concern me. I understand that for various reasons they are non-releaseable, but they are living in circumstances that cannot be much better than those from which they were rescued. I have a captive-bred redfooted tortoise and have studied a great deal about turtles and tortoises, so I do know what I'm talking about. :-)
First, tanks are never appropriate for any turtle or tortoise. The air flow is insufficient, they are FAR too small, and turtles become stressed by being able to see out w/out being able to GET out. If for some reason a turtle or tortoise MUST be kept indoors (which is not recommended at all), what is recommended for terrestrial turtles/tortoises by the experts are
tortoise tables. Many examples of those are here:
http://forums.shelledwarriors.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5329
(This is a British forum and most of the tortoises are Hermanni/ Graeca/Ibera, but although those require a more arid environment than boxies, the general design does not differ).
However, all turtles/tortoises should be housed outdoors. Given the environment you guys have at the center, and the nice aquatic turtle setup you have, this should be easy enough to do. Examples of really nice outdoor pens here:
http://forums.shelledwarriors.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5329
My own outdoor pen for Beasley, my redfoot (and redfoot requirements are quite similar to those of box turtles):
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=15919407&uid=1279168
And a few more good ones:
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/pentips.html
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/avoidbox.html
An excellent box turtle site:
http://www.boxturtlesite.info/
And (see esp. the HOUSING section and the hibernation section):
http://boxturtlesite.info/bxbook.html
Finally, I am assuming that you guys are not hibernating your non-releasable box turtles -- please consider doing so. It is so important for their well-being. Info on hibernation here:
http://boxturtlesite.info/dvmhib.html
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/safer.html
Many people use refrigerators (set up for that purpose and carefully monitored) for the safest hibernation:
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/Refrigerator.htm
I understand that you guys put a lot of time and effort into what you do and I applaud that. :-) Generally I think you do an awesome job. However, I hope that in this instance you will take my advice seriously and make some drastic changes in the environment in which your box turtles are living. Their enclosures are too small, too dry, not outdoors, stressful (in that they can see out and there is no place to dig, in addition to being too small and too dry), and in general simply not conducive to good physical or good mental health.
If you need any other info, please do let me know. I have spent a great deal of time and energy learning about turtles and tortoises and will help if I can. I would also be willing to come up and help build an appropriate outdoor pen if you would like the help. :-)
Anyhoo, I thought I'd post this here, and I'll update you guys if I hear back from them. :) I hope they pay attention!
Hi -- I brought in the snapper this a.m. :-) Thanks so much for helping him/her -- I'll check back for a progress report in a few days.
I do want to comment on the box turtles' accommodations because they really did concern me. I understand that for various reasons they are non-releaseable, but they are living in circumstances that cannot be much better than those from which they were rescued. I have a captive-bred redfooted tortoise and have studied a great deal about turtles and tortoises, so I do know what I'm talking about. :-)
First, tanks are never appropriate for any turtle or tortoise. The air flow is insufficient, they are FAR too small, and turtles become stressed by being able to see out w/out being able to GET out. If for some reason a turtle or tortoise MUST be kept indoors (which is not recommended at all), what is recommended for terrestrial turtles/tortoises by the experts are
tortoise tables. Many examples of those are here:
http://forums.shelledwarriors.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5329
(This is a British forum and most of the tortoises are Hermanni/ Graeca/Ibera, but although those require a more arid environment than boxies, the general design does not differ).
However, all turtles/tortoises should be housed outdoors. Given the environment you guys have at the center, and the nice aquatic turtle setup you have, this should be easy enough to do. Examples of really nice outdoor pens here:
http://forums.shelledwarriors.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5329
My own outdoor pen for Beasley, my redfoot (and redfoot requirements are quite similar to those of box turtles):
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=15919407&uid=1279168
And a few more good ones:
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/pentips.html
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/avoidbox.html
An excellent box turtle site:
http://www.boxturtlesite.info/
And (see esp. the HOUSING section and the hibernation section):
http://boxturtlesite.info/bxbook.html
Finally, I am assuming that you guys are not hibernating your non-releasable box turtles -- please consider doing so. It is so important for their well-being. Info on hibernation here:
http://boxturtlesite.info/dvmhib.html
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/safer.html
Many people use refrigerators (set up for that purpose and carefully monitored) for the safest hibernation:
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/Refrigerator.htm
I understand that you guys put a lot of time and effort into what you do and I applaud that. :-) Generally I think you do an awesome job. However, I hope that in this instance you will take my advice seriously and make some drastic changes in the environment in which your box turtles are living. Their enclosures are too small, too dry, not outdoors, stressful (in that they can see out and there is no place to dig, in addition to being too small and too dry), and in general simply not conducive to good physical or good mental health.
If you need any other info, please do let me know. I have spent a great deal of time and energy learning about turtles and tortoises and will help if I can. I would also be willing to come up and help build an appropriate outdoor pen if you would like the help. :-)
Anyhoo, I thought I'd post this here, and I'll update you guys if I hear back from them. :) I hope they pay attention!