How often do you worm your tortoises?

[sarah]

Do you take poo samples to the vets and check for worms? how often do you do this?
What wormer do you use?

[sandy]

I only worm my tortoises when I see worms. As medicating them regularly cant be that good
for them. I try only to use medication as and when needed.

[sarah]

So you check your tortoises poo's regularly. Does a build up of worms affect them while they are hibernating? I have read somewhere that certain foods are natural wormers is this true?
What do you use when you worm them?

[sandy]

Some say carrots are a natural wormer, not sure if true. But the odd bit of carrot as part
of a varied diet wont hurt. But only once or twice a year. Dont want keepers thinking they
can feed it at any time<g>.
If torts get a build up of worms the actually expel them with the stools. Then its time to worm.
Tortoises slow down and stop eating if they do have an over load.

[nina]

I've heard that about carrots, and I've also heard that pumpkin has natural worming properties.

Nina

[saucysqueezy]

i thought i would keep on topic and bump this up

how do you check for worms and what should you be watching out for - we've read a few guides but it's better to know from people directly I think to get first hand experience :)

[wizzasmum]

I worm annually in the summer as torts kept in enclosures reinfect themselves. I took part in a study for the Royal Veterinary College which showed that even tortoises that had been wormed earlier in the year still carried eggs. I was advised to worm them annualy for this reason. It would not be necessary if torts were in the wild as they would not be so likely to reinfect plus they would most likely eat natural vermifuge plants. I now feed my russians pumpkin each October and since doing this their faecal samples have shown very low concentration of worm eggs in the spring and they have appeared livelier after hibernation. Just my own observations aided by the veterinary study.
Sue

[piglet]

I also took part in this study, found it very beneficial for myself and the tortoises,
I worm 6 weeks after hibernation and around mid summer, i have my tortoises checked randomly through out the year and only on occasion is a high worm egg count seen.
I use pancur 2.5% - 10% depending on species and age
Darren

[wizzasmum]

Hi Darren
So good to hear from someone else who has taken part in the study. If I remember correctly there were twenty of us taking part. I found Struan to be really helpful, even though he kept saying the reverse LOL. What I found fascinating was that Samson, who I consider to be one of my livelier torts had the highest count despite being wormed earlier that year. Mind you he is a grubber, eating slugs and decaying vegetation if he can find it, proving the likelihood of re-infestation. I worm mine mid summer, except the hatchlings which have been kept in smaller enclosures obviously, with stricter control over substrate change. I have not wormed the russians for two years but have given them pumpkin in October after having brought them in prior to wind down. As the pumpkin only appears to paralise worms, along with giving the gut a thorough clean out, it would not be so useful to do it outdoors in my opinion. Indoors I can keep a stricter control over substrate change. I don't feed any other food for a few days while the pumpkin is clearing the gut. As the russians are harder to worm than hermanns, spurs etc I shall continue to do this while they are reacting so well to the regime. The difference in their activity levels since doing this are amazing. I also used the 'treatment' on the leopards last autumn too.
I still have some systamex in date from the last lot I bought so will be using this to worm mine this year, but will go over to panacur next year, same as I use for the little ones.

[saucysqueezy]

where do you get the items to worm them from? We haven't had our torts long but with it being summer we thought better to worm them, they are just over a year old

[piglet]

This is my point tortoises will rein fest them selves pretty quickly if allowed access to a particular pen over and over .
Worm eggs become concentrated in the ground and any tortoise especially grubbers as you put them Sue are very likely to reload the gut quite quickly.
Now every one is going to panic about there tortoises getting a worm burden WELL don't tortoises have evolved over millions of years to be able to cope with a worm burden. But of course its nicer to no your animals are at least relieved of this burden now and again.
Another reason for worming in my opinion is breeding animals in particular randy male tortoises are so tuned to the mating process they can exert them selves terribly if this tortoise was to also carry a worm burden or one that hasn't been kept in check there is a likely hood his system could become run down quickly as the worms draw on his reserves making him susceptible to infections etc .
One reason so many imported tortoises perish within a few months of entering the UK is the huge worm burdens they carry depleting the little tortoises reserves so leaving the stressed body open to attack from various virus's and bacteria’s RNS being the commonest .
Sue i have only learnt about pumpkin this year so will be using it as said .
I also have a strange story referring to pumpkin when its in season i feed it regularly to my red foots they have never had a worm count within any faeces being examined pumpkin i suspect ,
Darren

[aprillinda]

darren

how much pumkin and how often for red babies please

would this be classed as their fruit ration?

thanks linda

[wizzasmum]

Hi Darren
Usually when I mention this people tend to think I am mad - glad someone has noticed similar reactions to pumpkin. My vet is also very much for natural cures if at all possible for most complaints, believing that the observation of a vigilant owner can often give the answer to a question. A case of making sure you can see the wood through the trees so to speak before barging in with the most invasive and traumatic measures.
To the person who posted the question about how much to give - I would personally give nothing else for a few days, to make sure the gut is clear. Obviously this is just an observation and I have no way of knowing exactly what is left in the gut, and what the difference would be if you fed it alongside other foods. I would make sure it is not too close to hibernation either. Make sure they have a more normal gut load before commencing wind down to be on the safe side.
Sue

[piglet]

Sue
We try natural remmendies at work if we think it can be of use and has a wide safety margin .
One use for instance grapefruit seed oil is added to water as a natural wormer for birds it has the same effect as pumpkin , of course its not relied on exclusively but for poultry it does the job quite well but it tastes vile :( .

Pumpkin Linda is loved by redfoots but i wouldn't use it exclusively but as part of the fruit veg diet feed as avaiable or instead of papaya for instance i only really use it for adult reds to be honest not for any reason just do
.
Linda as Sue has stated for it to have any real effect you need to feed on its own and nothing else for a day or so this enables the digestive tract to empty the contents including the worms .

Darren

[pmullen]

im going to try the pumpkin thing this yr ive a few growing in the garden
they spred alot though.........a warning if you have a small garden and plann on growing them
my dads going mad asking me hoiw much more will they grow!!!!

[wizzasmum]

LOL - I grew pumpkins one year too. Never again - I now buy two in October and make lanterns for the kids and the torts have the finely shredded insides. Lantern making can get quite addictive and now the kids want a different one each year<g> I also tried growing echinacea for the torts too, but they ate it before it grew to full size - raised beds next year methinks :)

[aprillinda]

so

have i got it right ?

for red babies pumkin 2 times per year then no food for a couple of days after the pumkin?

ohhhh i've got to let them go hungry :cry:

but i am sure this is a good thing :?:

do not want to sound thick BUT where r the worms coming from in the 1st place :?: :?: plants or meat ?

r these worms like what peolpe might get from undercooked meat or fish ?

if substrate is totally cleaned every 4 weeks will this reduce the possibility of torts getting worms

thanks linda x

[piglet]

Hi Linda
Worms are usually contracted from the ground there eggs are littered every where ,
The main two distibuters are wild birds starlings in particular and earth worms .

No they are not the same that can be contracted from uncooked meats these are called tapeworms but tortoise can contract tape worms but its rare .
The worms most tortoises pick up are called round worms there are various types and feeding natural graze i'm affraid is the usual way they are ingested as eggs theythen hatch inside the tortoise and produce eggs themselves which in turn are passed out in the tortoises faeces hence redistrubuting more eggs for reingestion.

I believe for best results as a natural wormer pumpkin should be fed as Sue recommends but redfoots are able to cope with this vegatable as a main part of there diet so feel free to how often its used , but if you do use it more frequently and as a mixed oart of the diet it doesn't mean the worm load if they ever get any will be killed of completely but it will certainly help keep it under control
Darren

[rodneypig]

You should come to my house at Halloween - I had 22 pumpkins last year :lol: Thats enough for everyone!!!!!

[sandy]

Well we know where to come for a pumkin then<g> do they change into coaches<vbg>.

[rodneypig]

Sandy,
No it's a shame they don't! The guinea pigs quite like them though :lol:
Deb

[sandy]

Multi use fruits are great.

[Beetlebabe]

Sorry to hijac this thread, but it seemed silly to start a whole new thread about worming...

I have had my 1 yr old Marginated for just over a week now, and was under the impresion he would need to be wormed, so i have contacted the two nearest recommended vets. They told me that because he was bred in this country, he does not need to be wormed yet? Is this true, and if so when will it need to be done?

I have tried checking his poo, and cannot see anything odd - but maybe im not looking right !

[sandy]

If it were my tortoise I wouldnt worry about worming yet. You need to have a few tortoises using the
same piece of ground, over a few years before you need to worm.
There have been some good advice about natural wormers, which you could think about using.
The time to worry about worming is if you know your tortoise is wild caught. These need to be wormed
as can have an over load.
Both who have posted have more than one tortoise, so need to be more aware of worms.
Always better to be informed and prepared for it to happen though.

[wizzasmum]

No need to starve the tort at all LInda when feeding pumpkin - I think you read that wrongly ;)
Sue

[aprillinda]

thanks darren thanks sue

yes i did read it incorrectly :oops:

but now i know what i am doing :lol:

[veebee]

Hi Sue/Darren/Sandy, great advice given above ie. giving pumkin/carrot for worms, you have mainly mentioned this is ok for ref foots and I think Sue mentioned her russian, my question is, is it ok for all other tortoises, in my case leopards, spur thigh (and horsfield which I think was mentioned) :?: :P

Vivienne

[piglet]

Hi Vee
Yes it si ok to feed any tortoise spp, but remember this is only beng used as a natural worming aid and not as a supplement to there diet .
Sue recommends when using pumpkin to feed for one day with no other foods then leave the next day without food to allow the pumpkin to pass into the gut alone , this has a paralizing effect on the worm which will pass out generally in faeces.
If you notice your tortoise has a large worm burden ie worms in abundnce seen in faeces then a chemical basted wormer is best used like panacur or systemx
Darren

[wizzasmum]

Hi Darren
LOL - eventually we will ubderstand what the other is saying<g>
I posted **To the person who posted the question about how much to give - I would personally give nothing else for a few days, to make sure the gut is clear.**, meaning that I feed nothing but pumpkin for a few days to make sure the pumpkin clears the gut of rubbish. I don't give them any fasting days - it seems to do the trick OK withought, a bit like a gentle colonic irrigation<g>

[wizzasmum]

Oops meant to mention too Darren that systamex has been withdrawn due to some problems with sheep. Pity as it was great for torts. If you hear of it being back on sale please let me know. Thanks ;)