Spur thigh but what sort?

[perry]

This Graeca was given to me last year, he's my smallest although ive been told he's at least 15 years old. He's only 650 grammes, ive taken a photo of him with my Greaca Graeca's to show his colour and size only. He is still in quarentine. He is much darker than the rest. Any help identifying him welcome. He seems fully growm to me.


http://upload7.postimage.org/381404/PICT1725.jpg (http://upload7.postimage.org/381404/photo_hosting.html)

http://upload7.postimage.org/381409/PICT1733.jpg (http://upload7.postimage.org/381409/photo_hosting.html)

http://upload7.postimage.org/381415/PICT1729.jpg (http://upload7.postimage.org/381415/photo_hosting.html)

http://upload7.postimage.org/381421/PICT1732.jpg (http://upload7.postimage.org/381421/photo_hosting.html)

He seems to have 2 small spurs each side.

Thanks
Perry

[piglet]

Hi Perry

I would think this male is a northern/ northeastern Morrocan boardering Algeria region ,Morrocan TGG.

Darren

[perry]

Hi Darren

Thanks,

I've never been so confused as i have been today. :?

Perry

[piglet]

Perry , TGG are the hardest group by far for id'ing so your not alone I often find it confusing :?

If ever in any doubt though you acn always get an expert opinion by mailin pics to Andy Highfield via the tortotoise trust,
Andy has worked in the field with these tortoises he is a could learning point for id help

If you go to the start page you can email him from there. http://www.tortoisetrust.org/

Darren

[perry]

Hi

Thanks,

My main concern though, is that I can keep all spur thighs together and all hermanns together whatever the region they are from.

Perry

[piglet]

Perry no not really

1 x breeding would result in fertile eggs from the male TGG and the whitei basically produceing mule offspring.
2 , Whitei are prone to RNS if mixed with other types such as Ibera or hermanns

Darren

[perry]

Hi

I did not mean spurs and hermanns together.

I'm gonna post another picture of all the spurs that live together, they are different sizes but all look similar

Perry


http://upload7.postimage.org/382294/PICT1694.jpg (http://upload7.postimage.org/382294/photo_hosting.html)

[Henry-flash]

The one at the front in the middle looks like an ibera to me, so that would need to be seperated for a start.

[piglet]

Perry you have two Iberas ,two Whitei and one Morrocan in that group.

They will hybridise freely if left to gether , the Iberas look female ,but these will also become fertile by the Whitei/M ,TGG

Whitei and TGG'S are very prone to RNS when mixed with Ibera, they are more likely to contract it than if you were to mix hermans with Ibera

Darren

[perry]

Hi

Im re posting the photo with Numbers on the torts, I have already been told that 3(HARRY) and 5(TITANIC) are graeca graecs whitei.

Can you please tell me what you think the rest are again please.

Perry

[piglet]

Perry from left to right

Ibera, male TGG Morocan form,ibera then whitei and whitei at the bottom

D

[perry]

Hi

1 male
2 female
3 Harry male i was told graeca graece whitei
4 female
5 Titanic, female i was told graeca graeca whitei


http://upload7.postimage.org/382755/PICT1694.jpg (http://upload7.postimage.org/382755/photo_hosting.html)

[sandy]

I agree with Darren, the ibera have much wider rear ends<g> and dont have a waist.
They also have a different shaped head to TGG.

[piglet]

Perry you have two good pairs then best house them seperately and the little male tgg on his own .

Darren

[perry]

Sorry to be a pain, if you enlarge the photo i've put numbers on them.
which are which again, (going by the numbers)
Thanks
Perry

[piglet]

1 TGG morocan type

2 Ibera

3Whitei

4Ibera

5 whitei

[Henry-flash]

1 morrocan
2 ibera
3 white
4 ibera
5 whitei

[perry]

Thankyou

Youve been very helpfull

Perry

[piglet]

Your more than welcome

D

[egyptiandan64]

I agree completely with Darren and Pete :D

Danny

[perry]

Hi All

Thanks

The top photo's of the little graeca, this is not a graeca graeca then?, can it be put with the ibera famales?, or left seperately only? or put with number 1 (in the group photo which is a morrocan?).
If your confused with this question, dont worry, i am too,lol

Perry

[Henry-flash]

The male in the first pic and the small Tgg in the group photo are both morrocan. The one in the group shot I think would be of more southern region as he is lighter coloured. I'm not sure about mixing the two, but it may be possible see what Darren says :)

[perry]

Hi Peter

That was quick

dont go away more pictures coming now LOL

Perry

[perry]

Hi again

These are pictures of some youngsters i bought to add to my spurs, (when they were older) what do you think they are graecas or iberas. they were born in 2005
Perry
http://upload7.postimage.org/390549/babytorts05003.jpg (http://upload7.postimage.org/390549/photo_hosting.html)

http://upload7.postimage.org/390552/PICT1764.jpg (http://upload7.postimage.org/390552/photo_hosting.html)

http://upload7.postimage.org/390553/PICT1766.jpg (http://upload7.postimage.org/390553/photo_hosting.html)