Welcoming new members

[shellonia]

I've been disturbed that recently there have been several new members join with very little knowledge of tortoise keeping and they are asking basic questions.Most of us are really pleased to answer anything and nothing is too trivial as we are all learning all of the time.However their threads have been hijacked by those who love controversy for its own sake and I have felt so sorry for the questioner.Has no-one noticed that recently a couple of people have ceased to post and they must be in more confusion than when they first asked.They may indeed have been put off the forum altogether and gone to get info from less reliable and informed sources.Personally I feel ashamed that Shelled Warriors allows this to happen and hope it isn't a future trend.

[ibizathetort]

I think more and more people are picking up on this feeling, I certainly have of late, I think I've mentioned it to at least 4 other members this week. I think its hard though to sort out what is just trouble making and what is just 'another viewpoint'

[yuna1971]

I have noticed this a bit, Shell. :(
I find sometimes its a bit 'I do it this way, therefore its the right way and any other way is wrong'.
I welcome debate, I like to participate but sometimes it does go on for pages with 2 people just going back and forth in their own arguments. xx :)
Would like to see what else is said on this.
Personally speaking, I like nothing more than to try and help a new owner. It really gives me pleasure to see them grow in confidence as an owner. I recognise that my opinions and suggestions are just that - and that my way of doing things isnt necessarily the right or only way, but ways and tips I have learnt from being on here and also what has worked for me. I think the key thing is that we share, and not dictate. xx :)

[shellonia]

wasn't so much that which got to me.it's the 'troll'and'fruitcake'type comment and i know a recent thread was closed.But probably not soon enough to lose members who had just joined.Great shame

[Alan1]

I usually say "what I do is".. then they can either use that or not. It's better than saying "this is what you must do". It is no wonder there is confusion though, there is a post on the pyramiding thread that says humidity is unimportant to Med torts yet a well respected tort vet from Morpeth says humidity is vital and hatchlings should really be kept in a viv for the first 2 years (in fact he also says that in his opinion, torts under 2 years old should not be sold at all), now what do we believe here? I would tend to side with the vet because .. eh.. he's a vet but what if he's completely wrong? How do we know? We can only say what has worked best for us and even that can be wrong because what has worked best just could have worked better if done differently.

Same with hibernating (or not hibernating), it's no use saying it must be done and done this way, or that it's best not done at all. The person asking the Q should be offered the advice that if they choose to do it then these are ways it can be done rather than this way is the best way. The same applies with pellets, I feed weeds when available but I have started giving pellets as well. Certain sites say NO TO PELLETS :) but if it comes down to bagged salad or pellets which is more beneficial? I don't know for sure so have to make a decision on info gained and would offer the same advice to a newb which would be - They eat weeds in the wild.. but pellets is also an option.. some people give bagged salad.. now you have to read all the info, ask some more questions if you like and then decide :)

[roofee0778]

Ok, I'll tread carefully here...

I am a new member, and I can say I have had nothing but really helpful friendly advice. I got my tortoise much earlier than planned due to unforseen circumstances, so have been asking pretty basic questions. Thankfully none of my questions have resulted in a 5 page argument, and no one has made me feel stupid, which I am very grateful for.

...... However, if I had received the response from my first post that I have seen some get recently, I wouldn't have made it past that first one. Hibernation, which is a massive worry to new owners, seems to be the worst subject (closely followed by pellets). The original question seems to disappear into the background, while people who must have had the same argument a million times have it again. I'm sure it can make the newcomer, whose question is very important to them, feel quite insignificant. A lot of you have obviously known each other a long time, and can be very blunt with each other without causing offence, but a newcomer with very little knowledge might find that a bit intimidating. I know that new owners should be made aware that there is a choice about hibernating (I didn't know there was a choice before coming on here - I thought you HAD to hibernate), but it really should feel like a choice - not like you have to join one 'side' or the other.

Again, I would say that I have had a very positive experience on here. and I hope to be asking daft questions on here for a long time. Some of the banter on here also makes me laugh out loud! I am also one of the 'fruitcakes' that commented on the tortoise that died, but hey, you can't please everyone!

I hope I haven't upset anyone with this - I really don't mean to - but I had noticed this happening as well, and can speak from a newcomer's point of view.

[ibizathetort]

I think we all agree that we respect each others views, I think it just becomes unacceptable when it becomes a bit personal.

Personally I think the best way forward would be to continue to offer our support and experiences and to just ignore any incendary comments, making a real effort to keep the thread clean and on track for the op (usually a valued newbie!)

Thats my 2 pence worth anyhoo gang :)

[sarah]

Im afraid some people have very strong views on certain things.
Here at Shelled Warriors we like to discuss different ways of doing things and yes sometimes this can get a bit heated and we try our best to control the threads. Some people just have very strong views.

If you dont like someones views, just ignore them.

But we will not accept rude or bullying behaviour and if you see any of this please pm a admin or mod.

[Steph37]

Ok, I'll tread carefully here...

I am a new member, and I can say I have had nothing but really helpful friendly advice. I got my tortoise much earlier than planned due to unforseen circumstances, so have been asking pretty basic questions. Thankfully none of my questions have resulted in a 5 page argument, and no one has made me feel stupid, which I am very grateful for.

...... However, if I had received the response from my first post that I have seen some get recently, I wouldn't have made it past that first one. Hibernation, which is a massive worry to new owners, seems to be the worst subject (closely followed by pellets). The original question seems to disappear into the background, while people who must have had the same argument a million times have it again. I'm sure it can make the newcomer, whose question is very important to them, feel quite insignificant. A lot of you have obviously known each other a long time, and can be very blunt with each other without causing offence, but a newcomer with very little knowledge might find that a bit intimidating. I know that new owners should be made aware that there is a choice about hibernating (I didn't know there was a choice before coming on here - I thought you HAD to hibernate), but it really should feel like a choice - not like you have to join one 'side' or the other.

Again, I would say that I have had a very positive experience on here. and I hope to be asking daft questions on here for a long time. Some of the banter on here also makes me laugh out loud! I am also one of the 'fruitcakes' that commented on the tortoise that died, but hey, you can't please everyone!

I hope I haven't upset anyone with this - I really don't mean to - but I had noticed this happening as well, and can speak from a newcomer's point of view.

Dont worry-really really great to see a new member who has found this helpful, as I do-its a great site. I wouldnt worry about what you write if I were you-you will soon learn that 99.99999% people are here to learn-and the same majority of us who put things down are talking about what we do, we are not saying we are right. I have noticed that many poeple are feeling more and more obliged to say that 'this or that is my opinion' but when I write I am always writing my opinion in the knowledge that its ONLY my opinion, maybe right, maybe wrong, but always in the best interests of tortoises and trying to share info with and learn info from, others.

I have been foolish in getting caught up in personal attacks on others (you dont know who's related to who on here, who is friends with who outside of this forum, nor how many hours some people you know may have given to doing the most remarkable things to tortoises that many would have given up on)-and as 'novice professionals' (if there is such a thing!) have done incredibly impressive jobs at bringing half dead tortoises back to life.#

And then that's criticised and poeple are called 'fruitcakes' and 'trolls' for caring just because one out of many tortoises are lost/killed through ignorance. there is only one person who states things as fact-please dont lose sleep over it and stay and join the rest of us.
I love discussions but its the personal attacks that we (and I accuse myself hugely in resposnding to this but I wont have strangers criticsing relatives and friends of mine) need to stay out of and 'I know it all' type comments which are put in SIMPLY for the FUN of winding poeple up and ensuring they start an argument (as oppoosed to the discussions which we have and are just fun and interesting).
I work with kids with challenging behaviour and the last thing I do is get drawn in! I of all people should know not to argue back as this is what the one individuial wants and is no doubt living for posts which can be twisted and made statemnets of fact (which is one thing) but personal, even libellous comments at worst.
Sorry, I dont know your name, but I can assure you that you dont need to worry-those of us who get drawn in need to learn not to. there will then be no fun for the person we are all talking about.
Please stay and join in the good discussions we have as we are all learning all the time. And whenever I put anything, its only what I think, it doesnt mean its right, but wont be intimidated into typing that phrase in every single post as I find it diffivcult enough to type (you wouldnt think so I know!) as it is without having to justify everything I say-its all opinions only and all the decent people on here are the same.
Was just thinking of the lovely lady who was about to buy a Hermanns tortoise and simply asked 'what did she need to buy?' She got various bits of advice (ie our opinions) but dotted in between outragous comments which were totally inappropriate and she hasnt posted since. She probably now will get to know nothing about tortoise care despite her clearly good intentions and the whole site looks bad due to one person. Poor lady. Steph

[Steph37]

What would you like us to do??

We can't go around deleting everything that offends a few... that wouldn't be fair... we can't go around banning people because a few people don't like them... that wouldn't be fair either...

We try our best to keep threads on track... or put them back on track... and to keep SW a friendly place... but sometimes threads are going to get a little bit heated... it comes with the territory...


On the forum I belong to that is linked to a very rare neurological disablility I have, every week? or month? the moderators post a standard post that reminds people of the purpose of the board. Obviously very different type of board with very different aims and issues arising, so in this case it reminds people that we are not neurologists so when some people talk about medications and doses that have helped them, this shouldnt be taken as gospel, it says that no reference to certain medics names can be made, nor specific brands of disability equipment. It also acknowledges that through extreme pain and progressive disability people can get short tempered (with a great deal more reason than anyone on here!!) and to try to keep to the point, and that if they feel like 'venting' (must be of american origin) then they need to make clear that it is a 'venting' post, not place it in the middle of another topic. Of course you cannot ban severely disabled people from a site, but on a site like this maybe political correctness comes ahead of people using slanderous language and labels-other chelonia sites ban certain people for such things and I think that there should be warnings to people as things can spoil it for the rest of us-its different getting into an intense debate (which is fun) than making personal attacks on people and making others, as I watched swad (and I dont even know him/her) I think in a previous post, being ripped to pieces on a personal level and putting off new members. Surely if its a choice between poeple asking for help/advice and people thinking they know it all therefore not learning or contributing, we should be here for those of us who want to learn new things through sharing and discussion rather than those who dont 'need' advice. Surely we want those who are new to chelonia care learning things rather than being put off-shouldnt those poeple be the ones we put first as they are admitting (like most of us) that we dont know and are still learning on a daily basis? Steph

[Steph37]

I think we all agree that we respect each others views, I think it just becomes unacceptable when it becomes a bit personal.

Personally I think the best way forward would be to continue to offer our support and experiences and to just ignore any incendary comments, making a real effort to keep the thread clean and on track for the op (usually a valued newbie!)

Thats my 2 pence worth anyhoo gang :)

I agree-you are so right about not being drawn in-its more likely to go away if ignored and that's where I've gone wrong. BTW what is the OP? (other person?) I assumed, maybe wrongly, because of where it came from it stood for something very rude, but as you are saying it, I have just thought maybe thats all it means-I thought it meant 'oppostion' or 'Odd people' or something worse!!!

[swad1000]

Original poster, or thread starter if you like.

[dolittle]

I actually enjoy reading heated debates(not the rude comments) as they have helped me in the way I do things. If I think something should be done a certain way but then read that someone does it different and theirs and other reasons why, it has changed my mind in the past. I think it would be boring if we all said the same things. Years and years ago the experts thought they were doing things right and what's to say in years to come we will find out what we are doing now is wrong, at least we have had the options to choose different ways that suit us through peoples opinions and experience. Sometimes I think people forget they are talking through a computer and take things to heart to much. And i actually enjoy posts by 'fruitcake' lol even if I might not agree as they are honest and he does not conform to the crowd. Too often I read people advising others to do something but not knowing the reasons why its best, when they are asked they say it's what they've been told or read. Gosh long post for me but it's just my opinion:)

[Marly]

"In my opinion" Kelly (Stells) has some very valid points in her last post. As do most of the posters on this thread.
On the whole I think OP's, be they new or old Shelled Warriors's, get very good and varied advice. They are offered tips and suggestions which they can try, usually comeing back with more questions or updates on improvements. Which I think we all learn from.
Every so often though, comes along a thread which does get feelings running high, for what ever reason. We are all passionate about torts and sometimes this passion shows.
I posted on what is now becoming "the fruitcake and trolls" post because I felt important information has been forgotten, missed or just lost in the thread. I passionately felt it should be re-stated, which I did, as cooly as I was able. I also said I was happy to be called a fruitcake, which I still am, happy I mean, not a fruitcake. I didn't feel insulted or upset by that, although quite frankly I did not see a need for it, but have realised that other posters are as passionate as me.
Some topics will always arouse passion and disagreement, which in my opinion is a good thing. There are no RIGHT or WRONG ways, just DIFFERENT ways of doing things, which should be discussed.
I have learnt lessons on here, the main one being respect. Now, if I have nothing good or helpfull to post, as Sarah too has mentioned in this thread, I ignore. It was a hard but good lesson. I do post when I feel passionate about something, but now I do try very,very hard to remember that little word, respect.

[sarah]

"In my opinion" Kelly (Stells) has some very valid points in her last post. As do most of the posters on this thread.
On the whole I think OP's, be they new or old Shelled Warriors's, get very good and varied advice. They are offered tips and suggestions which they can try, usually comeing back with more questions or updates on improvements. Which I think we all learn from.
Every so often though, comes along a thread which does get feelings running high, for what ever reason. We are all passionate about torts and sometimes this passion shows.
I posted on what is now becoming "the fruitcake and trolls" post because I felt important information has been forgotten, missed or just lost in the thread. I passionately felt it should be re-stated, which I did, as cooly as I was able. I also said I was happy to be called a fruitcake, which I still am, happy I mean, not a fruitcake. I didn't feel insulted or upset by that, although quite frankly I did not see a need for it, but have realised that other posters are as passionate as me.
Some topics will always arouse passion and disagreement, which in my opinion is a good thing. There are no RIGHT or WRONG ways, just DIFFERENT ways of doing things, which should be discussed.
I have learnt lessons on here, the main one being respect. Now, if I have nothing good or helpfull to post, as Sarah too has mentioned in this thread, I ignore. It was a hard but good lesson. I do post when I feel passionate about something, but now I do try very,very hard to remember that little word, respect.


Very well put :p

Simple if you dont like someones comment ignore it.

Shelled Warriors is not free to host its quite expensive. But we keep paying for it so we can help tortoises and spread new ideas.

[TortBabe]

I am so grateful to have found this site, it has helped me and my torts no end, increased my confidence as a keeper, made me a better keeper. I read everyones advice, try this, try that and come to my own conclusion which will work best for my torts. I also have made lots of great friends, quite often almost peed myself laughing (Thanks Alan :lol:) and enjoy conversing with other people who love torts. So I will say Thank you to Sarah and Andrew, this place has certainly been to me exactly what it was intended for...tortoise knowledge. The laugh on here is an enjoyable bonus, and if anyone wants to be rude or ignorant, I just ignore it :p:p

[Steph37]

Without the more experienced members giving out advice... how are we meant to help newbies... if we lose the more experienced the whole forum will be full of newbies (no offence intended) without anyone to guide them... what use would that be... nobody on this forum is put before anyone else... the new generation of tortoise keepers are respected as well as the older generation... but that doesn't mean we always have to agree...

Has nobody thought that the reason they get so het up about the differing opinion is because they think there opinion is right... so really nobody is different to anyone else...

Nothing to do with opinions Kelly, as far as I know from all the people within pm, its tone and argumentative style aimed at insulting and humiliating. There are plenty of people on here who's advice I would (hopefully correctly) take as gospel but that's because their tone and demeanour commands respect, not just their age or standing! Anyway, enough of me, but obviously there's a lot of people who feel similarly. A lot of the people I have felt bad for are those I've nevee responded to, let alone pm'ed. Just felt so awful for the two ladies who have posted this week-never to return-surely that's not what SW stands for. Anyway, sorry its old ground now! Steph :grin:

[ziggy's owner]

We all have our ups and downs, and yeah some people make out they know it all, my words is try if it don't work try something else, I know I for one have had fall outs with people for saying something but as Sarah and Kelly say ignore it

[ibizathetort]

I don't think anyone is looking for a member or members to be shown the door. I think sometimes order is needed when a thread gets personal. I admit to being in a right tiz last night on that thread until Bindi pulled it up for being personal. Sometimes that's what the forum is crying out for. Nobody is asking for a draconian policing of peoples views just a warning when posters get out of hand

[justmeandmytortoise]

Without the more experienced members giving out advice... how are we meant to help newbies... if we lose the more experienced the whole forum will be full of newbies (no offence intended) without anyone to guide them... what use would that be... nobody on this forum is put before anyone else... the new generation of tortoise keepers are respected as well as the older generation... but that doesn't mean we always have to agree...

Has nobody thought that the reason they get so het up about the differing opinion is because they think there opinion is right... so really nobody is different to anyone else...

I agree, and you make some very good points Kelly. I do miss the input, knowledge and discussions from the more experienced keepers who have sadly left :-( as I learnt so much from them. However, everyone has a voice and valued input and I enjoy the diversity of the posts. I admit I missed the 'trolls' thread ... It must be very hard running and directing a Forum ...

Sarah ... I had no idea it was expensive to run. Thank you :p

[pixie-egg]

Ooh Sarah I didn't realise you had to pay to run this site. Thank you so so much. For a newbie like myself i'm very greatful for your time and effort to make such a useful resource I can return to whenever I need.

As already stated above I am a newbie who has been greated with open arms. I have only good things to say about this site and everyone involved. I know some are a little more vocal in their opinions but thats what they are, opinions. I was involved in a thread that got a bit heated and when it did I stepped back. There is no point in arguing for arguments sake. Their is nothing wrong with a good debate when it's kept light hearted and factual. There are always going to be people with strong views and on this and esp other forums i've come across many. Now i've found this one and folk genuinely seem to want to help. It is the most welcoming and friendly one i've come on and now for that reason the only one. I don't see any reason to take what is said personally, most of us have never even met. And I for one find the debate's very interesting and new things can always be learnt.

I'm sorry to waffle on. Just thought i'd add my bit since I am a newbie and DO feel like i've been greated most warmly x

[Alan1]

I admit to being in a right tiz last night on that thread until Bindi pulled it up for being personal

what thread was that then? how have I missed that one :?

[justmeandmytortoise]

what thread was that then? how have I missed that one :?

Me too Alan ..:-o

[pixie-egg]

Me too Alan ..:-o

If it's the one I think (the one I didn't retaliate to) it wasn't too bad. It went off the original subject somewhat and a bit of gentle name calling. I quite like being a fruitcake tho!! X

[Alan1]

what's it about then or what section is it in?

[ibizathetort]

The lost tortoise thread that got closed in the end

[Alan1]

I've just read some of it there. It's no surprise the guy had no idea really because many or even most of the shops who sell them have no idea

[justmeandmytortoise]

Sorry to appear stupid ... what's a 'troll' if not part of Three Billy Goats Gruff :oops:

[ClareandCo]

Sorry to appear stupid ... what's a 'troll' if not part of Three Billy Goats Gruff :oops:

Isn't it one of those "plasticy little men" with coloured hair?

I think when referred to on the Internet, its basically someone with too much time on their hands who posts rather pointless and often rude and irritating posts to get people wound up and to get a response - which 9 times out of 10 they seem to achieve!

[justmeandmytortoise]

Thanks Clare :) Do I take it that 'trolls' are not taken seriously then for their comments? I am at a loss with internet words and terms :roll:

[Alan1]

Troll comes from the term trolling which is fishing or angling using bait on lines and in internet terms a troll is a term used for someone who is fishing for a reaction

[swad1000]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

[Lowe]

The forum allows you to ignore posts by certain people. If someone's really that annoying you can ignore them and their posts simply don't show. Sadly, you can't ignore a Mod or Admin. ;)

[ibizathetort]

How do you do that?

[ibizathetort]

Ive just worked it out, edit the ignore list, very handy!

[Alan1]

it doesn't work very well doing that though because you then wonder what the hell other people are talking about or referring to :D

[ibizathetort]

It'd be peaceful :)